Hang-OutCalendarHomeFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
L.Lawliet
Envoy Soldier
Envoy Soldier
avatar

Achievement Points : 32
Posts : 482
Reputation : 605
Waifu : L.Lawliet

PostSubject: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:48 am

Hello people of WDA, I’m L.

I’d like to talk about a very important issue every duelist is having right now: combating the Chaos Dragon deck.
Chaos Dragons, at this very moment the deck is currently the best one out there, with the highest dominant force in the current meta-game. The deck isn’t hard to build, it’s not that hard to use as well, so you see it lot of it. The straight of the deck comes from the quick spamming of high-level beaters on the field, thus capable of making OTKs as well as simple beat you down. And of course you all saw how many YCS’s the deck has won, it’s safe to say that it doesn’t matter what deck you use against them, they are the favored, for an example: the second most popular deck out there – Dino-Rabbit, inherently has a very difficult time against the dragons, due to the overwhelming power that the Chaos Dragons bring to the game.

Anyway, enough saying how good the deck is, we all know. This article is about how to stop them.
Now, I’m not an OTK style of a player, I like more control type decks/stun and things like that/ so obviously I don’t like the dragons. I’ve searched a lot how to stop them so I can play the decks I like.
At this very moment these are the cards that I was able to find:
Spoiler:
 


If you see something that I missed please do tell me, either PM me, post here about it – do something.
So about the cards, obviously I’m not gonna talk about all of them, I’ll just talk about the most important ones.

The best cards in my opinion against the deck are: Level Limit-Area B, Fossil Dyna, Necrovalley, Messenger of Peace and Light-imprisoning Mirror.
Feel free to look at the rest of them as well.

Messenger of Peace.
Spoiler:
 

And
Level Limit-Area B.
Spoiler:
 


The idea of both of the cards is the same, they’ll stop the dragons from attacking your monsters, thus giving you time to recruit and take control over them.
Even with their similar purpose the 2 cards are quite different and both can be used vs different decks as well as Chaos Dragons, it all depends of the deck you’re playing. Now Messenger of Peace is a card that can be easily used in Inzektorz vs the Chaos Dragons, like I said, and against Dino-Rabbit as well, thus protecting the bugs from being destroyed by attacks due to their small attack force monsters (200/500/1000/1600).
As for the Level Limit-Area B, I’m planning in siding this in my Dino-Rabbit deck for sure. You can side this card in Inzektorz as well, I really think this is the best card against the chaos deck. It not only stops their attacks but it puts every 4lvl monster in defence, this is the main difference between Messenger of Peace and this card is that, Messenger can be easily stopped by Lyla’s effect as well as Ryko’s, and they are both x3 in the chaos deck. Now with Level Limit-Area B the only thing they can do is the 3 copies of Ryko and the MST/Heavy in their deck, Lyla is switched to defence before it can activate the effect. This card can be used against Hero beat as well and the beauty of Area B is that XYZ monsters doesn’t have levels, so your XYZ’s can still attack and destroy the opponents monsters.

Fossil Dyna

This card is by far one of my favorite cards in the game at this moment, used it in previous formats and I’m planning on using it in the future ones.
The card has 2 effects:
1)Neither player can Special Summon monsters.
2)When this card is flipped face-up: Destroy all Special Summoned monsters on the field.
So you can use this card by 2 ways: one just set it and wait for the dragons to attack it, thus leaving the opponent field empty, and the other way you can just summon this card in face-up attack position and keep the dragons at bay.
This card can be obviously used against other decks as well, you summon this card against Hieratics and it’s pretty much your game.

Necrovalley.
Spoiler:
 


This card can’t be used in many decks, it’s the key card of Gravekeepers. The key words in this card are these: “Cards in either player's Graveyard cannot be removed from play. Cards in either player's Graveyard cannot be affected by card effects, except for their own effects.”
Meaning that this card fully stops the dragons and the only way for them to comeback is the MST/Heavy and Lyla, so you better have BTH or Solemns, something like that, for that Lyla… I’m not taking Ryko for a thread against the valley due to Gravekeeper's Descendant effect.


Light-imprisoning mirror
Spoiler:
 


This card is maybe a 3rd best card against dragons, it doesn’t stop the dragons from attacking or summoning, but it stops their main cards: Lightpulsar, Lyla, Ryko and Eclipse. Now many side Fissure or Macro against the Chaos deck but they just get owned by Lyla or Ryko’s effect, and it’s not like you can chain Macro to “Charge” or anything, since it’s a cost. Thus making Light-imprisoning mirror a very good choice against the chaos dragon. Many people think that Shadow-imprisoning is needed as well, but I see no reason to it, it’s funny how Chaos Dragon players doesn’t even side SIM cause they think that it will hurt their deck…

I’ll stop with the card discussion/review here, there are a lot of cards in the list above, but I can’t really talk about every single one of them, feel free to check all of them, and again IF you see something missing please do tell. Take note that the cards I added there aren’t that used, so don’t say add Macro/Fissure, TT, Dark Hole, Mirror Force etc.
And please if you see some spelling mistakes please do tell me, it’s a long article and I might have typed something wrong here and there.





Back to top Go down
View user profile
DigiDigi
WDA Staff
WDA  Staff
avatar

Achievement Points : 60
Posts : 2501
Reputation : 3447
Waifu : DigiDigi, Digi(^w^)

PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:20 am

"Best out there" implies it is tier zero, which many of us can come to disagree upon as Chaos Dragons is definately no tier zero deck. Every deck has it's cons. You listed some decent cards one would side, however there are more ways to combat such a speedy format such as this one. You could also set your main deck structure expecting say Hieratic, CDs, WU, and heck even a speedy Inzektor by maining two torrentials, two bth, two warnings and whatnot. As for a deck like Hieratic, they would side torrentials. As for every other deck you can also have the helpful side of Gorz and (for some cases) Macro as much as possible. They do rely on the grave so why not consider macro alongside dyna and gorz?

I appreciate the article you posted and I ask you to continue doing so. Be sure to be a bit more careful with your word choices in your next article. I know you said the listed cards aren't used often but why not discuss the most effective methods of doing so? Also do try to be more detailed as to what kind of strategy one must consider and how they should structure their main deck to adjust their meta calls. Take a topic like this and get more into it. Analyze it and elaborate more. Til next time, nya~


Je t'aime comme un frère, Kimo. Je ne partirai jamais ton côté.

Quotes
Spoiler:
 


Last edited by DigiDigi on Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typos)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
rjuto
WDA Staff
 WDA Staff
avatar

Achievement Points : 28
Posts : 1063
Reputation : 1397

PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:06 am

DigiDigi wrote:
"Best out there" implies it is tier zero, which many of us can come to disagree upon as Chaos Dragons is definately no tier zero deck. Every deck has it's cons. You listed some decent cards one would side, however there are more ways to combat such a speedy format such as this one. You could also set your main deck structure expecting say Hieratic, CDs, WU, and heck even a speedy Inzektor by maining two torrentials, two bth, two warnings and whatnot. As for a deck like Hieratic, they would side torrentials. As for every other deck you can also have the helpful side of Gorz and (for some cases) Macro as much as possible. They do rely on the grave so why not consider macro alongside dyna and gorz?

I appreciate the article you posted and I ask you to continue doing so. Be sure to be a bit more careful with your word choices in your next article. I know you said the listed cards aren't used often but why not discuss the most effective methods of doing so? Also do try to be more detailed as to what kind of strategy one must consider and how they should structure their main deck to adjust their meta calls. Take a topic like this and get more into it. Analyze it and elaborate more. Til next time, nya~

Every format has it's dominant deck...that doesn't mean it's strictly tier 0. Bwings, X-Sabers, Six Samurai, T.G., Tengu TG, Rabbit, and now Chaos Dragons, etc...they WERE considered best decks of each format, but weren't considered tier 0 (Tengu TG came close though :/). Just take a look at the YCS coverage and you'll find out...seeing 1 single deck infesting 26 spots out of 32 in a competition is not fun (TeleDAD, Tengu TG, fe).
So yeah, Chaos Dragon might be the best deck of the format cause it's the deck to beat right now, but it's not Tier Zero and I believe nobody wanted to say that xD.

Article is decent. Like Digi said, could've been a bit longer and explanatory. Main conflict with Chaos Dragons when it comes to siding is that 1 side card is just not enough to beat them. I HATE lyla and ryko with a passion, so I usually use Drain alongside Necrovalley, or Macro Cosmos.
Still, the deck has outs in the form of Typhoon and Storm so...only thing that keeps it away from being THE best deck of the format is the fact that it requires to mill. Helpful and bad at the same time. Not to mention the ugly first hands clogged with useless bosses.


Quote :
Quote :
Amethyst777 said:Things activate in reverse order. Thus, bottomless targets grannel before he hits the field, and thus before his effect activates (gaining attack). People told me DN was dumb. But jegus.

Quote :
Amethyst777 said: I just realized something. The problem with playing a children's card game: You're bound to encounter children, 90% of which are squalling moronic retards with arrogance issues.



^Words of a true close minded moronic ignorant.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
L.Lawliet
Envoy Soldier
Envoy Soldier
avatar

Achievement Points : 32
Posts : 482
Reputation : 605
Waifu : L.Lawliet

PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:00 am

DigiDigi wrote:
"Best out there" implies it is tier zero, which many of us can come to disagree upon as Chaos Dragons is definately no tier zero deck. Every deck has it's cons. You listed some decent cards one would side, however there are more ways to combat such a speedy format such as this one. You could also set your main deck structure expecting say Hieratic, CDs, WU, and heck even a speedy Inzektor by maining two torrentials, two bth, two warnings and whatnot. As for a deck like Hieratic, they would side torrentials. As for every other deck you can also have the helpful side of Gorz and (for some cases) Macro as much as possible. They do rely on the grave so why not consider macro alongside dyna and gorz?

I appreciate the article you posted and I ask you to continue doing so. Be sure to be a bit more careful with your word choices in your next article. I know you said the listed cards aren't used often but why not discuss the most effective methods of doing so? Also do try to be more detailed as to what kind of strategy one must consider and how they should structure their main deck to adjust their meta calls. Take a topic like this and get more into it. Analyze it and elaborate more. Til next time, nya~


I'm sorry Digi, but you have to be living under some rocks or something, Chaos Dragons are the most dominant deck out there, there is a reason for all the YCS's that they have won. Hieratics are good, but like I posted, 1 fossil kills their whole deck + TCG hieratics?!? please. And the cards you said are just bs, I'm sorry but, every deck has solemns and BTH nowadays, that doesn't stop the dragons...
Now about the strategy you speak of, if you're going against the chaos deck you have to be ready, cause you're facing the best deck atm, that means that you're not some noob guy that doesn't know what to run or w.e., if you come to see those cards, that I posted, you pretty much know how to play the game...





Back to top Go down
View user profile
DigiDigi
WDA Staff
WDA  Staff
avatar

Achievement Points : 60
Posts : 2501
Reputation : 3447
Waifu : DigiDigi, Digi(^w^)

PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:14 am

When you post an article that analyzes a deck type and you wish to explain on strategies and give advice, then you need to elaborate as if you're talking to "some noob guy." It's a part of good penmanship and you do have to expect questions at some point as to why you say whatever you say. It's just an expectation and that was the entire point that I was trying to make. I know they are a dominant deck. I'm criticizing your penmanship.

Edit: not only are chaos dragons a dominant deck in the TCG, but they are also the most popular as well. Strictly referring to IRL.


Je t'aime comme un frère, Kimo. Je ne partirai jamais ton côté.

Quotes
Spoiler:
 
Back to top Go down
View user profile
L.Lawliet
Envoy Soldier
Envoy Soldier
avatar

Achievement Points : 32
Posts : 482
Reputation : 605
Waifu : L.Lawliet

PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:41 am

Okay, now that I've calmed down, lets start again.
Digi, I see what you're trying to say, since I didn't originally though about people that are new to this game, so if anything - you can always edit my post and add more stuff, I made it to hear what you people would say about it, so feel free to fix any mistake you see.




Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:55 pm

A decent article. Going with Digi's post in saying that elaboration is needed here and there, overall you do make some valid points. Although I would question the theory of stalling a Chaos Dragon duelist when there is indeed 3 MST, Heavy Storm, the occasional dicks that run 2 or 3 night beams alongside double dust tornadoes and the mained lylas and rykos. As we can come to agree that this is a very anti-backrow format and therefore it is discouraging to even attempt using continuous face-ups as a counter to this discouraging sackyness that is Chaos Dragons, Dino Rabbit and Wind-Ups.

Messenger of Peace and Level Limit Area B are very universal cards that are very interesting to look into and I'm glad you brought those into light because Inzektor players do find this to be useful to side in. Necrovalley is a very wise choice as it counters Rat, Hornet, Pulsar, REDMD and lets face it with good timing in early game, after one would set up, you play Necrovalley your opponent would be facing some difficulty facing some facts until they hit an mst or heavy. Proportions for that are 1:10, still a decent chance of one of those 4 cards hitting, making necrovalley a bold attempt. Still, I do not discourage Necrovalley and it's a great meta-call.

The issue I see in a stall strategy is, again, the backrow hate that this format presents. You can say all day that LIM counters Ryko, Lyla, Pulsar + Wyvern (which are your main concerns anyways,) then again we have to face the facts that LIM can be as easily destroyed as any other spell or trap. Albeit the rykos and lylas are out of the picture with LIM, you also counter any of the occasional (and face it they are brave/naive people,) Hieratic duelists. So the call on LIM is a very small one since it will be concerning mostly Chaos Dragons. Anyways, LIM overall is indeed a good call and a wise side choice.

Now lets address the best choice, Fossil Dyna. He is a terrific choice as he pretty much eliminates the "speed" of this format by putting Chaos Dragons and WU players at a complete standstill until they sack something to get rid of him or attack over him. First turn Dyna will most likely discourage them and keep them worrying. A good trap line up already equipped in your main build (averagely your staple 9-12 cards depending on the deck; specifically for detailed purposes for those that need to be caught up: BTH, TT, Warning, Solemn J, Compulsory Evac, Safe Zone, and the occasional Fiendish Chain; for OCG builds you would have all of that but with Raigeki Break and Wing Blasts.) A small note on the siding of Gorz. It's a preference to put him in side or main really just for the fact that your deck doesn't have the space per say and you would still like to use him for the specific purposes of Chaos Dragons, Wind-Ups, and any other fast paced deck that may come your way. It is also about conserving space in your side for other neat stuff that most wouldn't normally consider such as siding smashing grounds or siding mst's and heavy. Siding staples shouldn't be an unfamiliar concept at this point in the game (I see a lot of people I know side in Mirror Force, Smashing, MST, Torrential, etc. They do fine.)

One major concern I have is that you excluded how one would side in a mirror match. Again going with Digi and Rjuto's point that you have to elaborate to an extensive amount when you post an article. You publicly present yourself as an intellectual and people will look up to you since you're open for criticism. Being a journalist is pretty difficult and to see it as in this micro-form in discussion boards such as this doesn't seem to bring any real threat or desire to care to anybody. Alas, it is fine to think that way. But always remember that anyone can be judging you or just the "desire" to explain any concept to the public should make you aware that not everyone is as talented or knowledgeable as you are in your particular field. At least you aren't writing for Konami, those guys get a ton of hate mail I hear.
Back to top Go down
L.Lawliet
Envoy Soldier
Envoy Soldier
avatar

Achievement Points : 32
Posts : 482
Reputation : 605
Waifu : L.Lawliet

PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:05 am

Due to the fact that this is a back-row hate format/ le OTK format if you ask me/ most of the good chaos dragon decks doesn't have MST's in the main deck, they main 2 lances at max, the 3 copies of Lyla and ryko in the deck pretty much destroys the back-row, and ofc they have The Heavy Storm.
That's why your main priority has to be - shutting down the effects of the monsters (LIM), level limit-area B works good, cause it eliminates Lyla's effect and it leaves them only with ryko and Heavy Storm, since like I said again - the good chaos dragon decks doesn't have MST, they have lance.
Now it's I can see someone talking why would anyone get lance over MST or w.e., lance can be used for 2 things - protection and attack: it will protect the monster from prison/bth/mirror and etc, plus it will help you destroy high attack monsters. ~ that's the main reason why lance is in the main deck, not MST.




Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.   

Back to top Go down
 
Combating the Chaos Dragon deck.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
World Dueling Academy :: Yu-Gi-Oh! :: YGO Talk :: Articles-
Jump to: