Hang-OutCalendarHomeFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 New type chart in the metagame

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Al-Bhed
Machina Mechanic
Machina Mechanic
avatar

Achievement Points : 50
Posts : 3703
Reputation : 4747
Waifu : fem-Al-Bhed

PostSubject: New type chart in the metagame   Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:35 am

New typechart makes some very interesting things for the metagame, seems like it will be a major shift even without new pkmn when you look at new stuff. Let's take dark vs steel for example, seems like not that big a loss for steel, but here's how banded tyranitar and specs hydreigon match up against current steel OUs

Crunch from banded tyranitar OHKOs any jirachi except from physically defensive (so it still OHKOs something with full hp investment but no defense investment), while fully physically defensive still takes over 80%. Metagross shares a similar fate. Jirachi has always been a great pokemon defensivelly and an annoyance to many in general, but now that it has a full dark and ghost weakness it should be easier to deal with, jirachi did take a nerf from this. Metagross was always somewhere in limbo and this doesn't help it, while bronzong no longer has that single phantom weakness, gaining back its ghost and dark weaknesses.
Scizor has good physical bulk so it doesn't get ohko'd, however it is easily 2hko'd even with full HP investment. Magnezone is similar, but with fully defensive investment there's actually a good chance it won't be ohko'd. Heatran barely avoids the 2hko when physically defensive, but not in any other case.
Physically defensive Ferrothorn, Foretress and Skarmory have it a bit better as they just take about 40% from this.

They don't take that well to Specs Hydreigon though, physically defensive skarmory has a very good chance to be ohko'd by dark pulse after stealth rocks, while even specially defensive is 2hko'd by it. Specially defensive Ferrothorn takes about 40%, however the standard physically defensive one is 2hko'd by it. Foretress is similar to skarmory here as it is always ohko'd after stealth rocks when physically defensive and is always 2hko'd even after leftovers even if it's specially defensive.
Scizor doesn't take kindly to it either, as a scizor without HP EVs will always be ohko'd after stealth rocks, while even a fully specially defensive one will be 2hko'd. Magnezone does a bit better as fully specially defensive magnezone even has a chance to survive 2 hits (then again specially defensive magnezone can't do shit back to a hydreigon), while even magnezone with 0 defensive investment has a chance to survive 1 hit (very small chance after stealth rocks).
Heatran is lucky enought to dodge the 2hko when specially defensive, but is at least 2hko'd in any other case.
Specially defensive Jirachi is easily 2hko'd by this, while if it has max HP but no spDef EVs it will be ohko'd by it every time. Metagross ofc wouldn't fare better, as even specially defensive one has a chance to be ohko'd.
Gengar's shadow ball is a bit similar but stronger as gengar is more specially offensive.

With all that, while steel offensivelly gets a very niche role (meaning that scizor at least doesn't have much to worry about), defensivelly it fails to counter some powerhouses it would combat before. In fact, the biggest reason Dark was a bad type offensivelly was because everyone had steel types to combat dragons, so you could just switch your steel type into the predicted dark-type attack and retaliate. Now not only are they second best in countering dragons, but take high damage from some very strong dark and ghost types. Granted, Gengar, Tyranitar and Hydreigon had either Focus Blast or Superpower for coverage against steel types, but that wouldn't stop jirachi from walling them to hell and back unless they carried Fire Blast and predicted the switch-in, while now they can even lock themselves into their STAB'd moves. Personally I am also expecting a dark-type move in the over 100 BP range in gen 6 with ok coverage, which would make things even better for dark-types. Steel types did gain the fairy type resistance of course, but from what we've seen from fairy types they seem more like a niche oriented type than an offensive oriented type, with the only high offensve fairy pkmn known being Gardevoir and the most likely Uber Xerneas. Most revealed ones don't have the high offense graphical design, and while mega-mawile could be a thing, we don't know the specifics to mega evolution yet to tell. That would mean you may not really need a defensive check to fairy types unless we get a big offensive fairy type or specs/life orb gardevoir becomes a thing (which is still resisted by fire anyways, which is also shaping up to be a decent defensive type, even with stealth rocks).

Speaking of fairy type, what changes based on what we know?
Before seeing what the type counters, we have to see what pkmn we have which are worth using. Unfortunatelly, the only impactful one atm is an Uber and that is Xerneas. Ubers have been the most dragon infested tier in the game, yet Xerneas's dragon-type immunity isn't as massive as one would think.
You'd think that dragon-type STAB'd moves would be constantly flying around everywhere, but if you lock yourself into outrage for example in ubers, once you get checked chances are you are losing that pkmn, or even worse, an uber could be setting up on your face, which can often be a straight up loss. Of course, outrage coming from an Uber isn't the easiest thing to switch in to, but if the opponent has something to take it (heck, steel type arceus is a thing), then you just went down by one, and if the opponent sac's something, then you are either getting revenge killed or set up on (excadrill getting in in the sand and setting up swords dance, steel type arceus with a setup move of its choice, etc.), not to mention genesect is a thing which can maybe take 1 at full health, outspeed and revenge kill, depending on what you are using. Draco Meteor isn't much better, in fact it can be worse, because you are giving your opponent that free turn in many cases. If Extreme killer arceus switches in on a -2 pkmn, you are in a lot of trouble, for example (unless it's a Giratina ofc, or perhaps Dialga). That leaves mostly Palkia's Spacial Rend, which is actually commonly used in ubers, and Dragon Tail phasing, while Dragon Claw is often overlooked in favour of better options (move is kinda lucklaster in ubers). So, as far as using its immunity goes, Xerneas can switch in to a predicted Spacial Rend (although how well it takes a rain boosted hydro pump from a lustrous orb Palkia remains to be seen). Dragon Tail immunity is actually fantastic, allowing it to pretty much counter current Giratina sets.
Offensivelly, it's a different story. Palkia which only had 1 weakness before, that being to dragon, gains a second weakness while the afforementioned Giratina is countered. Poor Rayquaza has problems against yet another thing and White Kyurem gains an actually viable STAB'd weakness in ubers other than dragon and Genesect's Iron Head. It should be noted however that 2 very viable dragons in Uber, Reshiram and Dialga, take only neutral damage from Fairy-Type attacks, while Dialga can add a Flash Cannon or Iron Tail to its arsenal just to hit Xerneas with something for super effective damage, at the same time nothing appreciates Reshiram's fire type moves in the sun if they don't resist them.

Defensivelly it actually has uses, as poison is a foreign type to ubers, with the exception of bluffing nicknames on Arceus-Ghosts. Pokemons which get the STAB on steel in ubers are Genesect, Excadrill, Dialga and Arceus-Steel, other than that though, steel moves don't exactly have huge distribution outside of their own type and perhaps some bullet punch fighting types, so outside of those not much would use steel type moves, or would even have a reason to use them in the first place as an un-STAB, not weather boosted, below 100 bp move with small coverage in ubers is less than ideal. Even on Dialga, the flash cannon can easily be considered a waste of a moveslot, while even excadrill can have similar issues. As far as its resistances go though it does not have much to show apart from Dragon. Bug is a thing but predicting a U-Turn from Genesect which also happens to carry a perfectly viable Iron Head is a bit more than risky, while Fighting outside of scarf Terakion and maybe random Superpower coverage in a Deoxys or something in ubers is not something you'll come across often, if at all. Dark is now a thing with Yvetal coming and Darkrai having nothing to stop it from spamming dark pulse in ubers, that's actually great news for Xerneas. However, lack of a water or fire resistance in ubers can be pretty bad. You can only be so defensive when you can only sit back and watch a Kyogre throwing specs Water Spouts and taking lives.

Now where does that put fairy in the OU. Until we get something better, not anywhere visible. Mawile could be a defensive thing even without mega when you consider it has only a ground and fire weakness with 2 immunities to show for it, 8 resistances and 6 types it can hit with its STAB moves for super effective damage, but on the other hand, such type advantages can only do so much for OU, perhaps bump it to UU, at least if you don't take mega evolutions into account. Gardevoir can be a thing offensivelly, but for now that's it for normal attacking and defending relationships. Mawile doesn't have a steel or poison weakness, so that means you don't need either to take it down, while you never needed a super effective move to kill a Gardevoir anyways, I hear they die to tackle if you try hard enough. Other than that I feel from the revealed ones that they will be more centered around niche roles, passing around status, maybe a type of sub-seeding, while prankster fairies sound like a very fitting thing (not to mention that Whimsicott practically screams fairy-typing). The fate of fairy type move distribution outside of fairy type pkmn is also something to consider as fairy type moves are only resisted by 3 types, making some very good coverage with types like ground, and then ghost, water or electric.

Finally, by the new chart, indeed, no combination of 2 types can resist everything, poor wondertombs... Although there are still abilities to help with that, like Levitate Electric types, which we have one of already.

And of course, in all of that, obviously the biggest metagame changer is new pokemon themselves, so nothing can be said for certain at this point, other than, from the things I've seen revealed and uncertain mega evolutions aside, it seems like the power creep is rising a bit.


Quote :
25 Jun 17, 02:12
J.J. Knight: Every homebrew, at least the good ones, are made by people who've played the game for a few years.

Quote :
marthbeatsfalco: nope, there are 5 distinct and significant angles

This is now the iconic statement sig
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
New type chart in the metagame
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
World Dueling Academy :: Games :: Competitive Corner :: Pokemon Competitive Battling-
Jump to: