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 ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.

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PostSubject: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:00 am

Just so we never have to argue over this topic again, here, have an extensive thread proving exactly why I to be blunt, know far more than you do about this particular period of time within this game's history.


Here I have arranged the 3 big decks of the Set 5/Crossride Domination period of the game from left to right in order of their viability. First of all we have to discuss the cards that were available at the time for JAPANESE players, as this format was mostly averted in the English format.

Let's briefly talk about Pre-Set 5. Tsukuyomi is by far the best deck right now, and there is very little competition for her. This deck is not only the most consistent in the format, but also the one with the best 11k Vanguard, and a huge amount of support. At this point though, we didn't have cards like Euryale or the 12000 attacker, so we are merely talking about cards like Silent Tom. At this point, I like to consider Tom at the height of his popularity, he would see a huge decline in play once Dragonic Overlord the End became viable, and merely this one card is enough to change the format entirely. Let's put it bluntly, OTT was beyond unfair at this point in time. They had the best of everything.

The extremely powerful set 3 ride chains? They have the only one people even know about, the other one being the abhorrently bad Galahad series.

An 11k Vanguard in a time where that was a privilege? Got one.

The best Grade 2 in Silent Tom? Got it.

A nice selection of Triggers making line-ups much more flex in a time where many decks were stuck with 4^4? Check.

Draw Power? Check.

Explosively powerful end game when you hit your stack of triggers? Check.

The deck was FAR too good and the format needed shaking up. Tsukuyomi was a monster and it was obliterating every other deck without much of a challenge. Okay, there were a few other "Decent" decks, but Tsukuyomi was very clearly THE deck to beat.

Then came Set 5, the set that in my honest opinion, gave us the worst thing to happen to this game, Crossrides. It's not exactly the Crossrides contained in the set that were a problem, it was the mechanic itself which led to a massive spiral of bad power creep that leads us to laugh at cards like Silent Tom and now even the original Dragonic Overlord the End, a card that had a stranglehold on the game for a large portion of the period it has been played competitively.

I will say it now and not again, Dragonic Overlord the End was the primary driving reason behind the restriction list and the biggest format warp Vanguard has ever seen. This deck gave Tsukuyomi her competition and then some. He did what Tsukuyomi did to the format, warped it in a gluttonous way around himself where every game became his game or played around him in some way. Decks begun to change, cards dropped off the edges of cliffs, others rose to power under the new rule of this tyrannical emperor.

So why, pray tell, did DoTE dominate the game so hard? Why do I feel 100% comfortable saying that DoTE was one of the biggest design blunders in Vanguard, no, any card game in YEARS? This card literally exploits practically everything good about the game whilst abusing everything wrong with the game all at the same time. There was absolutely NO debate that DoTE was the best deck in this format, with even Tsukuyomi dropping far from her throne up in the clouds.

Let's once again consider the card pool we have now. While OG DoTE decks now probably would get demolished by all this newfangled bullshit and the fact DoTE has benn dethroned multiple times, at the time, DoTE was an unstoppable god of destruction.

Let's consider the fact Set 5 contained the very first Vanguards to be able to stay at a number higher than 11000. Those cards were Dragonic Overlord the End, Phantom Blaster Overlord, and Majesty Lord Blaster. Out of the three, DoTE was clearly the best for numerous reasons. First his ability was the cheapest out of the three, PBO cost 3 CB, MLB cost 2 units and DoTE cost a whole 2 CB.

Secondly his ability was the best out of the three. PBO's was absolutely terrible in comparison to the other two, MLB was just a giant swingy beater, and DoTE... Restood itself. Okay, this wasn't the first card to do this, but all the previous cards lost their Twin Drives on using it, and always cost something to make it always a disadvantage to get that extra attack.

DoTE? Nope. CB2 Persona Blast and he just stands his badass self back up and smacks the opponent in the face again. This meant essentially any time DoTE connected, they was getting hit with another guarding phase, and you drew 2 cards. Regardless of the size of their Vanguard, DoTE either stood on even ground with them or was bigger than them, unless it was an opposing crossride, which means it was a DoTE mirror since PBO was abhorrently awful and literally not worth even looking at while DoTE existed in it's current state.

This was HUGE to DoTE's success. DoTE was not only the biggest motherfucker in the format, he had basically the best ability in the game. Practically Tsukuyomi's ability to draw 2, except you don't have to pitch a card, and hell, you even get to attack again. This means you either deal 2 damage like MLB would, or even 3 damage if you did the ability twice.

So, yes, in theory you DO have to discard another DoTE. This was ANOTHER design flaw. Honestly, Persona Blast in general is a bad mechanic because it's a game of completely hidden information and the opponent could not ever let DoTE hit, or they lost literally on the spot. DoTE only ever needed to connect once, and the damage was done. There was now a huge gap in cards between the two players, and with Kagero being the best clan at this point, that advantage would only grow as the other player will be bullied by cards like Heatnail Salamander and Kimnara.

OG DoTE decks shown exactly why Vanguard's ruleset just isn't very tight and is open to a large amount of abuse. The stronger your Vanguard is at attacking, it becomes simultaneously stronger at defending, also. This leads to you creating both the best attacker and the best defender in the format, and when you staple literally the best ability ever printed on a Vanguard card onto this card and put it into the BEST CLAN AT THE TIME, it's easy to see why this was an AWFUL decision.

Post Set 5, the best clan changed from OTT to Kagero almost without any competition. Kagero has and always was one of the most solid clans in the game, and emphasised even harder here is the fact DoTE makes a complete card advantage laughing stock of Tsukuyomi, from the clan that supposedly focuses on card advantage. Yeah, about that.

Let's start off by saying there is no comparison between Conroe and Godhawk. Conroe wins literally everytime as Conroe is a blank for a PG, a 8k booster, or a removal card. That means the Kagero player is ALWAYS STARTING WITH AN EXTRA CARD. Many people thought we started with 5 cards. No, we start with 6. And unlike the CB1 scry 5 add a G3 starters of today, Conroe always fetched a relevant card.

Conroe is the best starter ever printed in Vanguard and at this point, I need not give more reasons why DoTE was the best deck, all has been said, but I shall continue just to give a comprehensive list.

Let's go into what other cards set 5 had. First we had the first 12k attackers. OTTs, while good, required 6 soul to always attack at 12. This was far worse than Burning Horn Dragon, which only required an Overlord unit in the VC. Once we get that out of the way, Kagero makes a mockery of the former Queen of the game Tsukuyomi further by taking away practically all of the cards that gave her so much power.

Silent Tom doesn't do shit to DoTE, and the rest of the powerful OTT rear guards like Euryale and even some of the Grade 1s at the time either got blown up by Kimnara or Heatnail, or was less effective against DoTE because DoTE was a big ass mofo sitting at 13k laughing all the way to the bank.

Let's go further into the fact that DoTE did not require a ride chain either. Meaning a large amount of deck space wasn't taken up by Tsukuyomi pieces that became useless after you hit your Grade 3.

And the fact that Kagero had a damage unflipper at a time when that was a rare commodity. DoTE was like a spoiled prince, it had everything it wanted and more. There was only two decks that ever came close to it's power level and even they sat far below him. I said once back then that DoTE would win close to 100% of it's games against other decks, making Vanguard a game of Overlord domination.

While that's not quite what happened, I did come very close to being right. You cannot dispute that DoTE was the best deck at the time, no matter what random obscure deck you bring up. The next two Japanese sets did nothing to quench DoTE's rampaging fury and only helped him by giving his two competitors more competition while he sat back and laughed.

Tsukuyomi, now probably the oldest deck in the format, as we come up to the time of the first Japanese restriction list, had morphed into a variant without Euryales and just a focus on pure consistent advantage.

and it still couldn't out do DoTE. Still. No gimmicks, pure fuel and bosses. Still. DoTE hadn't received much if any new support yet it still smacked aside every new deck Bushiroad placed in the path of this wildfire to slow it down. Gold Paladin called from the deck and had a boss who swung for huge numbers. DoTE didn't care because one huge burst does not kill the deck. Great Nature killed it's RGs before DoTE could. DoTE didn't care because it didn't need to bully your board at all to win.

There was very little to be done about DoTE, at this point it seemed like a limitation or ban was coming, with the card still unreleased to the English market. The format was in a horrible state of Rock Paper Scissors where one of the options was clearly much stronger than the other two, yet the other two would still beat out every other weaker deck in the format by a mile.

If you couldn't beat Tsukuyomi and MLB at the time, you had little to no chance at beating the king of he game. It was basically IMPOSSIBLE for certain decks to actually beat DoTE consistently, if at all, some decks just had to literally fold once they saw the card.

Eventually, Bushiroad did the unthinkable and hit all 3 of the big decks. This would mark the end of DoTE's influence on the game, nearly a year of absolute domination from it, and honestly one of the most warped formats in card game history. Let's make a tier list, it's going to be very short.

DoTE Tier:
DoTE.

Good decks:
Tsukuyomi, Majesty Lord

Trash Tier:
Everything else.


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19 Jun 13, 07:57 AM
DigiDigi: IM NOT A STUPID AMERICAB
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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:49 am

well i haven't read anything at all but... why did you need 2 topics for this?
and do you actually think mau5 genuinely comes on the forum?



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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:54 am

can't you just pm this to him

no one else plays vanguard except the two of you and other inactives



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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:29 am

supa plays danna or he did




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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 am

josh wrote:
supa plays danna or he did
Yeah I used to, haven't played for like 2 years though lol so... yeah pretty sure at this point nobody plays... or cares.



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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:45 am












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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:36 am

I'm going to be honest. I didn't read a single word of what you wrote. No one cares about Vanguard. Post something Pokemon related, and then we'll talk.
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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:03 am

J.J. Knight wrote:
I'm going to be honest. I didn't read a single word of what you wrote. No one cares about Vanguard. Post something Pokemon related, and then we'll talk.

PTCG metagame analysis ahoooyyy


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PostSubject: Re: ITT: I rant about the set 5 meta.    Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:47 pm

wait you actually made a 2nd topic? I thought I was looking at page 3




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